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I believe Ryan posted the Porter interview, (not able to confirm it as I can’t acess it from work). Thank you for doing that.
When I first heard the interview, Porter described a positional rondo game and I immediately tried to figure out how he was doing it. I came up with a 7v7+3 game and went from the box area to about the center circle arc, and the width of the penaly area (30 yards by 44 yards). My intent was to exploit the width while in possession, try to replicate the build up play of the backs. I see merit in doing this, but the transition from offense to defense was slow and probably a condition of the grid size. Also the center mids got clobbered in the middle and often would lose shape during transition. It just didn’t flow the way i wanted to.
The adjustment of the 6v6+3 rondo being more long than wide, helps solve some of the transitional issues and definitely helped simplify how the two center mids play. Again, less random movement by all players compared to my original scheme including the centers. More effective possession for the team with the ball, easier transition into defense as the play is squeezed laterally, and ultimately, it makes possession fun which not every player finds to be a fun activity. Probably because there is too much running to keep the ball. The way the activity is set up, creates a bigger descrepancy between how much work has to be done for the team with the ball compared to the team in defense.
http://www.coaching.3four3.com/6v6-3-positional-rondo/
That’s the correct link to video, could be the browser you’re using. As for the activity, it was laid out 35-40 yards length (penalty box to midfield) and 20 yards wide (touchline to edge of center circle). Space is largish for a rondo, but appropriate considering the number of players. The two teams of 6 comprise of your perimeter players (7, 2, 4, 5, 3, 11). The +3 players are neutral which include two of your three center mids and your 9. In the video, I believe the 9 plays outside the grid, I changed this to within the grid because I wanted the player not to be immune from being pressed/tackles. You can make the argument that the 9 out of the box is more game realistic, not likely to get pressed on the negative side of the ball, but I’ve spent a lot of work improving the strength of our 9 to hold the ball so our 8/10 can combine getting forward or for shots, thus wanting pressure on her at all times.
My suggestion is to change browsers so you can see the video. Basic shrink the field on defense, expansion on the attack being done. Concepts I believe most of us already understand. What I like most of the activity is the positional placement of players relative to one another. There’s less random movement of players to keep the ball, so you’re not having your 2 combine with your 11 which never happens in games (not in mine yet, at least). Watching interviews of Caleb Porter from a couple of years ago, the framework of every training session involved positional rondos, coordinated pressure activities and pattern play. Every activity must be functional (look like the game) to imprint upon the players how the game at match time should be played.
This is a high school girls team I coach. It is my first year for this particular school who has always played direct previously. We’ve progressed a TON since the start of the season a month and a half ago. Its ends in less than a month. Not a lot of time, but the team has progressed significantly from where they were and considering we train/play games 5 days a week, a lot of repetition can be had in that small amount of time.
Letting everyone know the 6v6+3 positional rondo game is quickly becoming a favorite of mine. We do the 4v0/4v1 rondos as a warm up in every training session and pre-game. The 6v6+3 activity adds an element of simplicity to a bigger game, eliminating players making random runs to keep the ball, realizing the importance of just getting big in possession and shrinking down in defense. The passing as a result under pressure is getting WAY better with the right amount of touch to feet or space, and recognizing when to play one time. It has helped my center mids and 9 tremendously in terms of checking their shoulder before they are played and our switching of points, either lateral or north/south, is very good.
One element introduced last night was an incentive to get 10 “clean” passes in a row, meaning the ball is not knicked by a defender. If the defense gets 10 passes connected against them, they immediately drop and do 5 pushup. The activity does not stop and while the defense is doing the pushups, the attacking team is trying to connect another 10 passes to punish the defense.
The impact is what I thought was pretty possession, suddenly started breaking down because of the intesity of the defensive pressure, the orgnaization of the defensive pressure in the form of communication (calling ball, where to press, how to ballance) and the engagement of more players in shrinking the field. This caused the team in possession to have to find new ways to retain the ball, playing dimensionally (short chips) and false steps to open up space. Overall, the competive element made a fun game even more enjoyable. Hated killing the activity after 35 minutes to progress on pattern work.
If this were basketball or football, running patterns (plays) is expected and often at a very early age, (especially for football for obvious reasons). Many involved in soccer are not athletes themselves. Meaning they were not involved in other similar in concept sports. Found that they were pretty good at soccer because they were for the most part competing against other similar athletic peers. Things have changed since the early 80’s but the issue is the folks running things were brought up playing that style of American soccer. What I find so facinating now is how much useful information I’m getting from making correlations to the other sports I played as a kid. As a result I’m experimenting with my own sets of patterns and although they are run “perfectly” by my team, they do create a framework from which we can play on. Often the patterns start the same, usually the build up phase of play. That is your start, similar to a point guard getting the ball up court. From there you run a play and see what happens. If the play is on, you execute. If its not on, you recycle the ball and reset, get your shape and create the next opportunity.
I’ve created plays using misdirection. I’ve created plays to help us in situations where I know we will be pressed high by an opponent playing a narrow football field (this is high school soccer) so getting wide isn’t possible, so we recongize how to create space in the next line, usually our 9 recoiling her run then springing into space behind the mids.
The overlaps my team has been reluctant to do. Partly because they are still in a mindset of defending when they have the ball, that they can’t cross into the final third of the field. Those are big runs and big runs back if they don’t go as planned. That is the push right now, but I also have created plays where we play to the 7 or 11, they either can turn to start driving at a defender and set up a combo with the 9, or they can’t turn and they play under to the 8/10, or our outside back recognizes the match up/marking and plays 7 or 11 in and we’re immediately behind the opponent defensive line. That is one pattern, with 3 possibilities, all without an overlap. Add the overlap then you’re still using the same pattern, you’ve just created another variable outcome.
As for the parents, I deal with it head on. I’m constantly communicating via email as to our intent, expectations and successes from our games. I overwhelm the parents with information, not to sell what we do, but to clearly communicate what it is being done. However, I also expect more from my players meaning I require them to juggle at home. They are lifting weights in the off season, something clubs don’t offer or have access to. We do agility training as well in the offseason which along with weight lifting reduces injury, gets us more athletic, and helps our fitness/conditioning. In season we will still lift to maintain muscle. With younger kids, that’s not going to be something done. For the high school into college teams, I’m surprised more teams don’t do this as the infrusture for it is there.
For the parent thinking their kid doesn’t run enough, give the kids homework to perform with the parents. See who steps up. I’ve had my run ins with parents, usually they are individual and isolated in their thinking. Also, I blind copy all the parents in my emails so they do not have access to the contacts I have on the parent list, thus eliminating a parent from getting up on a soap box. Its not their forum and if they want to create one, make them earn it.
I think Michael your suggestions are good ones and you’ll need to run them and observe their impact on the team. Assuming the U17 team might have quite a variance of abilities/comprehension so there may be players that need to stick to the 4v0 and players that are ready for the 4v1. Adding an additional defender to the hinder the shot of the successful group is a way to advance the realism of the activity so there is some urgency of the shot. From my example, the group that completed their sequence could be casual in getting close to the shooting line and placing their shot. Having a defender come at them adds a pressure element to keep the shooting aspect of the game honest.
If I hear you right, maybe keep the group that needs it, running 4v0 while the more advanced group with a 4v1 with the incentive of shooting on goal. I think that is one way of managing multiple skill levels within a team.
Here are some other suggestions to the 4v0 and 4v1 rondos.
Having a passive defender in the 4v1 helps illustrate the importance of players getting all the way to the cone in support and providing the correct angles of support to the ball. If the defender covers the angle of support sharply and the support player is even a step off from the cone, the ball may played to the support player’s wrong foot having him face the wrong direction as it was the only space to play into because of coverage. The support player receiving the ball now has to deal with pressure coming in and even tighter space to play into and often the ball is lost, all because the supporting player was a step off from fully committing to checking to the near cone.
Another element is passing too early. Sometimes the defender in the middle tires and in catching their breath they may skip pressing a player in anticipation of the pass after and by passing early we put the ball in a higher pressure situation than if we kept the ball. The solution, hold the ball for a few split seconds longer to enourage the defender to press, then pass the ball out harms way.
Thank you Bret. I love the concept and I tried it last night with 20 high school aged players. Set up five 4v0 rondos going to 15 consecutive passes. The goal was set up with a 20 yard shooting line that the player had to shoot before crossing. Although there was variation as to how far the various rondo grids were set up from the scoring line, the players were allowed to dribble up to, not pass the line to shoot. Another detail was the shot had to hit the back of the net before the ground so there was some pace on the shot, not just a pass into goal.
We progressed the activity into a four 4v1 as the numbers were ideal, took your conept of the sole defender aiding their team by hindering the team they were defending against in their completing the 15 consecutive passes. Eventually the defender tires and the 15 passes were completed and we had successful teams getting their shots in. Added a excercise such as pushups or planks for the loosing team(s) as an additional incentive.
Overall, very pleased with the dramatic competitive pickup in the activities. Having that many rondos will be difficult to keep a watchful eye on the technical details of all groups, but I think that can be managed by focusing in on a group or two as a quality check to keep the activity honest.
I can see using this adjustment in other 3Four3 activities such as the 6v6+3 rondo, making those games more competitive as well if/when needed.
One thing I will say about the 4v0 rondo game is that it is incredibly useful decievingly simple looking. I made the mistake of trying 4v1 with a group of U10 boys (mixed ages). The primary issue was the grass was overgrown making it difficult to pass the ball effectively while keeping it on the ground. The grass killed the pass and often tee’d the ball up making it too easy for the ball to be knocked up in the air. Adding a defender in the middle was too much considering the condition of the field and the age/skill level of the boys.
Given another chance I would have kept it 4v0 and made sure I did it every training session for at least 15 minutes, to establish an expected routine. For me, the kids that young that don’t enjoy it, haven’t developed a taste for the activity. They’re often not that good at it because there is a ton of technical detail to cover which includes one of the most fundamental skills that often is not coached, movement off the ball and anticipating the pass after the pass. To me, if a 4v0 game can be introduced to players that are U8 (for us that 4v4 small sided soccer with no goal keepers), even if it is not done or expected in games, you are imprinting the skill sets at a very early age that can continue to be refined as the players mature.
For the teams I’ve coached that are more advanced, I have always used a rondo game for warm up, often it was 7v2. I have since changed it to 4v0 to 4v1 progression. With the 4v1 I ask the defender to go 50% and be passive and we ramp it up to full on pressure as we find our touch and get warm. Even with the older more advanced players there is a tendency of the players to not get after the activity and being too casual. So a watchful eye is necessary regardless of the age group.
Scott. Your quote “Not all possession is created equal”. Love it. Going to use it.
As I tell my teams. “You’ll hear the other coach yell at his team to possess the ball. Well if it were just that easy, we could have saved ourselves all the work we did learning how to do it.”
Germany, wow. I have them winning the tournament playing Argentina. Just didn’t expect the match to go the way it did against Brazil.
I’m only going to take on one specific element and it has to do with the 2 attacking mids. Often when we are defending on our end of the field, our 2 AM’s will come all the way back to “help” defend. Normally I’m okay with this but often these players are in the way of back four and pivot. Keep in mind there is also a keeper, so there are 6 players in the defensive third of the field “defending” and often we have numbers behind and around the ball. Adding two more players (AM’s) creates a lot of congestion which I do not equate to being the same as being defensively compact. Often when we “win” the ball defending, we’re in the way or the players the AM’s bring with them from the opponent plug our abilities in getting forward because there is too much congestion.
Instead, and this depends on how the game is going relative to the opponent, I ask the AM’s to find space in between our forwards so when we do win the ball, we have someone we can play to when we clear it or combine to clear it. There is usually a ton of space between the opponent back line and their attackers when the opponent has the ball because they are eager to score, motivated to because the ball is on our third of the field and if they are coordinated in their press, they are attempting to block our passing lines from our backs and pivot. the obvious solution is to play over this with a medium pass into open space and having our AM’s there ensures our team has the ball and from there we can move forward out numbering our opponent in a counter.
Assuming your backs and pivot are pinned within your penalty area and your forwards remain high relative to the opponent backs or midline, then your AM’s are in between this area which is about 40 yards long and the width of the field. A 20-30 yard flighted pass is much easier than a bomb 40-60 yards out and with the spacing in this area, the AM’s can turn with/on the ball to find the three forwards to make the killer pass that breaks the opponent line or to combine with to beat the opponent CB’s.
I preface this again that your team has to have decent players skill wise in the back field, have at least a couple of players that have the speed to recover and get goal side to the opponent with the ball, and have the mentality to know when to string the short pass and when a medium flighted pass is warranted based upon the opponent structure/pressure against your team. One element, a couple of players (AMs), yet there are a ton of astericks that are important to understand and I don’t know if I even addressed this little element well. However, this particular spacing issue has helped my team in terms of creating another solution to play out from our backs, either in possession or at the moment we win possession in transition from defense.
Its interesting to see their press, as you say straight at the ball but it almost appears to be bait and its apparent the opponent is not comfortable with the short possession game against Bayern. Bayern in a way is encouraging the opponent to take a touch to one side or another and with that I’m certain they would go into another gear and attack that touch forcing an errant pass. I think the sophistication of it is their recognition of how they are baiting the opponent and the players in the 2nd/3rd defensive positions are in a spot ready to intercept a pass, but not making it too obvious to the opponent, yet their presense is still sensed by the opponent. To get there….
As for our pressure, we have the mentality, just not quite the choreography down. Regardless it has changed our mindset up top when it comes to defending and that is already apparent. As we improve our play together, with our three forwards pressing and forcing play, the next is getting our attacking mids into the next line of support of the opponent. There is a lack of committing all out with all 5 top players in the press, but again, we are getting results from it even at its current state.
I have started running phase games with the attacking 5 with the defending 5+GK. I address the pressure element of the attacking unit and the build up phase of the defending unit, usually starting from a goal kick. The intent is to get play going within 5 seconds of a ball going out of play. Often we’ll switch teams (Varsity to JV) so both units have to complete wipe themselves off the field so the new teams take it. That transtional element helps keep the fitness level up and the team that is better organized is more likely to get play off and resultant chance at scoring (defending to two outside targets).
Tonight is a recovery day and we’ll introduce the midfield pressure activity as a “game”. It is my intent to use that activity to help create that mindset of our attacking mids linking in with the front three on the press. An activity so they can see how to properly support the press by engaging the passing lanes and anticipating/reading a play to get a jump upon the passing attempt of the opponent.
Season is under way. We are four games in with a 3-1 record. Our first two games were dicey, but victories. In our loss, it was on a field that was very narrow with sharp drop offs along the sidelines (football field with soccer markings). In spite of that tight space and playing an aggressive, physically stronger and quicker opponent, we did manage some good looking possession soccer. In particular unlocking ourselves from our own corners by combining. Basically I would take how we played in that loss over the first two games in victories. Here are the videos unedited. Please excuse the dialogue during the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxzA_QfoqBY&feature=player_detailpage&list=HL1398176492
https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=HL1398176492&v=e1qR5r7R9Zg&feature=player_detailpage
I’m waiting to hear your feedback. From last year, our back 6 (counting the goal keeper) are the same with the exception of our left center back which has been tricky, but I think we’ll get there.
Last night we played an opponent that also lost to the opponent in the footage above, but their game ended 3-4 compared to our 0-2 showing. However, we played on a soccer field with natural grass. With wider space, better surface, we had all sorts of time to figure out our game. We won that match decisively 8-1 last night. Footage of that game is being uploaded and again I will be soliciting your feedback in terms of what we did well, what needs to improve and what I can be working on activity wise in training to gear up for our next opponent which is a full week away.
Thank you,
Paul
Varsity girls played their first match last night. The girls were nervous being the season opener. Interesting what nerves/panic will do in player decisions as my tenured 4 year starting center back decided she was going to dribble centrally from the back field, under pressure. I asked her what that was about at half and her response was she didn’t know why. At half we were tied at zeros but in reality we managed the ball very well on a narrow very slow football field.
Second half, the ice was broken 5 minutes in. Our second goal came a few minutes later and was literally Pattern 1 with a reserve player in at the left forward position. My attacking mid at the 10, scored the first three goals. The 9 scored the other two with the last goal coming off an in air twisting header. Nice 5-0 win. Score could have been much higher as our finishing needs work.
Lot’s of little things. Set Tactical Training will be hit pretty hard today and tomorrow before our next game Thursday, to improve the speed of our play. We’ll be at home on a soccer pitch, so ball will glide faster and there is another 20 yards of width which will be huge for us. Up top, we’ll work on the crossing element of Pattern 1 and 2 to be specific in the quality of our crosses and the timing of our runs at goal so the ball doesn’t get behind everyone. Our opponent will be coming at us and we need to put some goals in early.
I will be posting game footage soon on YouTube for the team to view and for you coaches. Feedback is welcomed.
Just posting what I felt occured in last night’s training session for my high school girls teams (JV and Varsity). We covered at quite length, taking goal kicks using the Defensive Unit (DU). The Attacking Unit (AU), I asked initially to play very soft defending, but in a way they thought would be right if they were allowed to go full on. My intent was to see if there was any transference of their “choreographed pressure” coming into their play as they shadowed against the DU on goal kicks.
For the DU, there is a lot of detail that had to be covered. The first was getting the play going quickly, to catch the opponent out of phase in transition with their backs to the ball. That haste meant the ball was rolling when it was kicked by the keeper which counters everything as it will mean a reset as would receiving the ball in the penalty area, so the passing had to be at pace. I also addressed the issue of the GK telegraphing her kicks by looking at one side of the field, angling her body to that side of the field, and kicking to that side of the field. Squared them up so they didn’t commit to an area until DU players were in proper position as playing early because the center backs are set and the outside backs are not, creates problems. Basically, if it is not on, it is not on. The “piece” is a tool that I want the team to use often, but onlywhen appropriate. With a lot more training, the more quickly we’ll get into position and the more often this will be a tool of choice in this set piece.
We went through the basic passing pattern, losing the man, combining to get to target goals on the flank. As the pattern was “learned”, I allowed the AU to pick up their pressure, still walking through, but addressed how to bait the opponent to play short by holding a low pressure line until the ball was kicked, addressed their choreographyand getting all players to engage. Once DU and AU were dialed in, it was game time. DU to targets for the score. AU earning a point for a shot on goal (has to be taken within the box) and 2 points for an actual goal.
Again, the DU sometimes would play the pattern when it wasn’t necessary (ex when the AU was caught with their backs toward goal) or combining before the target when an AU player was covering the combination and not covering the target goal. There are a lot of details to cover. There was a lot of yelled direction coming from me. Overall, the intensity of the training was high in spite of the detail I required to be attended to. The videos of John’s above are a great picture to use with the players so they can see what a result in a game can look like, especially when the details are taken care of consistently and “decisions” are still being made relative to the situation. Again, if it is not on, on the left side, swing it back to the right. That is not something I said they could do. It is something they did.
If anyone says that players will become robots adhering to “plays” in soccer, they are dead wrong unless you only allow that one pattern to be made with no room for improvisation. Overall, I am pretty stoked about the attitude of the girls from last night’s training and I believe that attitude is what let to pretty much all my players attending agilities 6 am this morning. More to come.
Hello Andrew,
I’ve done “double rondo” activities for a long time, just called them transitional possession games. I’ve done these games using only 4 total players to which each individual grid becomes a 2v1 within two adjacent 7×7 yard grids. That would be the minimal number for this type of game which teaches the passer to change their angle of support immediately after their pass. Just pick players that would normally work next to each other in a game so they can key off of one another’s abilities/tendancies.
The bigger game of 10 per side was played 10v2 within a 12 yard deep, 15 yard wide grid. The size was a bit small, but limited due to gym space. Ideally, I would have changed the space to 20 yards deep, 30 yards wide giving about 7 yards of space between players, which would have been more game realistic. Also may have considered sending in 3 players instead of 2, but with the limited space we had, 2 defenders was plenty and the tight space exposed issues of players individual body positioning being closed to the ball in play causing them to play back into pressure versus opening up the ball to relieve it.
The double rondo game as part of the 3Four3 curriculum creates a solution when you have odd numbers. As for positional relativity, I would keep “pods” of players together within a grid as they would likely be playing in a game.
Part of my thinking is influenced by what I heard Caleb Porter mention in an interview last fall. In it, he stated his team works on possession and pressure activities in every training session. Of the possession activities, he situates his team relative to the positions they play to create the familiarity of play amongst his players that would be experienced in games. Often those players are outside the grid with only the 3 central mids within it against a couple of defenders. I have a preference of keeping my players within the grid, getting comfortable with being on the touch line when receiving or supporting the ball.
I have started a full 10v10 double rondo game with my high school girls soccer program. The intent is to keep players in their relative positions during the possession activity The defending team can send in 2 defenders on the opponent side when out of possession. The first team to 40 total clean passes (accumulative not sequential) wins. Typically the group of players on the transition line are the ones that are the defenders entering the opponent grid (ideally). As a coach, you will need to adjust the positions so that the full backs are oriented on this line when you’re wanting them to enter the opponent side or the forward on this line for same thing. I’m hoping, that by doing this there will be more recognition come game time on how to possess as there will be familiarity of players relative to their and their teammate positions. So far, I like what I’m seeing and the competitive element of first to forty is great. Just make sure to have a large number of balls near you to serve in when the ball exits the grid. That way you punish the team that simply kicks the ball out of bounds as play resumes immediately.
