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I agree with John in general.
My teams play 3-3-1 as well. Using GK when playing out of the back is crucial so I want him to play pretty high and facilitate the switch. I know that GK usually does not have good feet at this age so I use 4 goalies during each game (half of each half) – the rest of the time they play the field. 3 in the middle are one holding CM (HCM) and 2 attacking CMs (ACM) their job is to facilitate playing from the back through the middle, turn and start attack. If OB goes high up the field I want HCM shift under him and fill his spot – not too deep but with ability to control this area. Long balls probably will go over his head so CB also shifts to that side (to clean up long balls) and the other OB also shifts little bit more centrally. So basically, at the transition when we lost the ball we are 2 (OB and CB)-1 (HCM)-the rest of players high up the field providing high pressure. I would love to instruct one of the attacking CMs (furthest from the ball) to drop but this did not work so far. For this age groups (U9-10) HCM is the hardest position to play as it requires more reading of the game than playing with the ball (should have maximum two touches on the ball before playing forward to either to OB, ACM or play back to CB or the other OB).
The question I have is that the problem with these age groups is pretty widespread roster in terms of skills, so where you play your weakest/strongest players is the key. In the Fall I played best players on CB and ACM positions with the goal to play from the back through the middle and then wide or forward. HCM was the tough kid with decent passing technique but not fast at all. Since kids getting better technically will try to move best players into wide areas (OB) so they can penetrate wide using their individual skills or 2v1 situations. Anybody else have different solutions to this??
Curious on folks thoughts on 4v4 (what we play at u8 level) and futsal (same thing + goalie)? Happy to start own thread on that if it clogs here.
We’ve opted for 1-2-1. The 1s are pretty self explainatory (I call them sweeper and striker, although if I fully adopt a 4-3-3 and dual cbs will shift that nomenclature). I call the 2s wings, expected to work up and down the field; shift in defensively and when ball is on the other side of the field; feet on chalk when the ball gets swung around to my sweeper.
In futsal, have introduced concept of goalie involved in the play (my men’s team plays through our goalie extensively), but have not pushed it too much, in part because FIFA laws of the game have changed a little bit and goalie cannot receive a pass back in their own half once they’ve passed to a teammate on their half; although that may be rather silly since our local rules do not follow FIFA and play back and we can pass back forth to the keeper as much as we want.
The only real gap I’ve seen in this system, is if you are ever on a wider field – for 7yr olds the pass back to sweeper can seem quite long. Further, our goalies (for futsal) are just field players rotating in goal at this age, so they are perfectly capable playing the ball at their feet.
Gary/Brian and others,
In teaching the 3-3-1 at 8v8 at U9-U10, how do you deal with the large amount of responsibility placed on the single CM to act in a DCM role and also in the attack going forward. In addition, I’m assuming he would have a role in the pressing as well.
At the age, maybe you haven’t gotten that far to work on pressing choreography? We play 8v8 until U12 so if I were going to go with the 3-3-1, I would like some advice about how to teach that CM role on the defending and attacking end…seems like that player would need superhuman endurance!
I have coached U11’s playing 8v8. At that time, my team wasn’t playing possession soccer as I know it now. The formation we used was a 2-3-2. The 2 backs were often more than enough coverage. It was easier to teach the concept of press and cover. If the 1st defender was beaten, she would make a recovery run to be the new cover as the 2nd defender assumes 1st defender duties. This allowed the keeper to play in a sweeper position when the ball was on the opponent side of the pitch as we always played a high line. I required my outside mids to man mark their counter part when out of possession and to lose their mark in possession. It was simple in terms of defining who did what.
If I were to do it again, I would run a 2-4-1 with a diamond mid. I never liked the dual striker formation anyway and often would stack them (1 true striker, 1 withdrawn). With the new formation, it addresses my previous tendency. What I gain from this formation is the ability to use the Set Tactical Training (STT) of building out of the back which resembles the full sided game. Teams that tend to have 3 backs in 8v8 soccer tend to only attack with 3 players, 4 at best. The 2-4-1 and previous 2-3-2 formation meant we attacked with 5 and would retain numbers to effectively press the ball when our scoring failed a result. Granted this was a rec team, but they earned promtion to the classic level.
In a 7v7 soccer, all you lose is the attacking mid so the formation is 2-3-1 and you still retain the ability to run the STT. For us, in U9/10 we play 6v6 and the formation would be a 2-3-0. Again, the emphasis I would take would be retaining the ability to build from the back.
Please note when I coached the U9/10 group, my emphasis was on individual development (Coerver, Soccer U, etc) and I didn’t allow my teams to pass in games. The intent was to establish strong abilities with the ball to beat defenders and comfort with the ball at their feet. That “experiment” resulted in my teams winning their games by significant margins even though I encouraged my teams to start shooting wide of goal and intentionally missing after they scored a hat trick. Today, if I were coaching this age group, I would still impliment the no pass rule in games for up to one full season. However, I would train in practice the STT so that is imprinted on them early and when that transition to possession soccer is made, they immediately have familiarity with the philosophy of what is going to be requested of them moving forward and the formation they are using is consistent of 11v11 soccer.
One of the coaches that the Brothers respect most and I reference often in my posts is Marc Gomez who is currently with Pateadores Irvine but was with Chivas and Cosmos. He starts with individual skills for a month or two and requires his teams to beat opponents in their first couple of games with zero passing (This is at the U8/U9 level) He then implements a bunch of the same ideas the brothers do. His teams play a very good possession style of play and are often amazing at the younger ages (last years U9’s were state cup finalists).
Thanks for the post Eric. Often when I state what I do I generate a response of that will never work from coaches that speculate as to all the horrors that will result of attempting such a feat. When I considered doing this, I actually warned the parents of the players pre-season that we may not win a single game. The intent at the time was develop the quality players I thought were necessary before playing possession soccer.
Paul-
Totally understand what your saying. I hope my response was interpreted as a support of teaching kids to win 1v 1’s (especially at the very young ages) as long as there is a plan to progress to the possession style that we are all trying to achieve. Not sure if Gary supports that but Marc does and they are very close. Our U9’s played Marc’s team this year in early spring and they dribbled and almost never passed. The team is now a very possession based system. Watching the video and coaching cues I see why they get along so well.
Quick question…I’ve never coached below the 11v11 game, how do you guys go about pressing? Do you incorporate a choreography like in the 4-3-3 ebook version? Assuming you play a 3-3-1 would you just have your striker force one direction and then shift your attacking mids towards that side?
Great topic! I had been thinking about asking this question for quite some time on the other blog… In Wisconsin we also play 8v8 through U12, so I am wanting to help my boys transition easier to the 11v11 game. With that being said, I agree with a few things that were mentioned earlier in this post:
1. I think being able to train different formations allows the younger players to see how to get in triangles, diamonds, space, etc
2. I personally started teaching my U10 boys (last year) the 3-3-1 formation. After reviewing the season, I wanted more of a relationship with TWO centerbacks and holding mid. Therefore, I switched this season (current) to a 2-3-1-1 … essentially two centerbacks, diamond in the middle (def mid, right back, left back, atk mid), and striker. This formation has allowed me to show the boys the relationship between centerbacks, def mid, and wide backs… and how their movement patterns should be.
a. Positives of 2-3-1-1: good shape in back, ability to control a game
b. Wing play can get tired (if possession is not held)
Emphasis with my team from Day #1 has been a few things: quickest thing out on the field is “your mind”, ball possession with the intent to attack is paramount, and winning the ball back with 5 seconds (like a pack of wolves).
**The results… we are the best possession team in the state for U11s (even though we might not have the best athletes). Development is occurring! Keep up the good work Brian and Gary**
I just posted this on the goal kick thread so I apologize for the double post but it probably fits here better. At 7v7 – this is pretty much exactly how I set my U9 team up tactically when we are playing 7v7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJlH4_GEluY. It is a 2-3-1 with the OMs playing endline to endline, dropping deep to defend and help with the buildup, and then getting all the way forward into the attack. The CMF also does double duty, playing as both a Holding Mid and Attacking Mid.
As we have improved our ability to hold possession, I have gradually encouraged the CBs to get forward more in support of the attack by having one at a time step up to act as an extra MF. For example when the ball is on the right wing, the RCB comes forward to offer support and help us circulate the ball if needed, while the LCB shifts centrally and stays around midfield. When the ball shifts left, the 2 CBs shift as well, with the RCB dropping centrally and the LCB moving forward in support.
In general this has worked well for us. As some have pointed out it does require a very high work-rate from the lone CMF at 7v7. He not only has to cover the whole field laterally but also (in 7v7) plays as both a “6”, “8” and “10” (I encourage mine to interchange with the striker). Defensively he has to press high and also drop deep and help cover the space in front of the CBs. At 8v8 this isn’t as much of concern because the holding mid and attacking mid roles can be split b/n 2 players.
As far as how this transitions to the future, 0ne of the reasons I like playing with a 2 CB system is it allows us to practice playing out of the back exactly as shown in STT activities in this course. Even at 7v7, we play out with a back 4 + D-Mid, and this will stay the same as we progress to 8v8, 9v9 and 11v11.
There are obviously a lot of different ways to do it, and as many have suggested you can play the same way with 1 CB (back 3) instead of 2 (back 4). A lot depends on the passing range of the players as well, so what works at U11 may not work as well at U9.
I just posted this on the goal kick thread so I apologize for the double post but it probably fits here better. At 7v7 – this is pretty much exactly how I set my U9 team up tactically when we are playing 7v7: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJlH4_GEluY. It is a 2-3-1 with the OMs playing endline to endline, dropping deep to defend and help with the buildup, and then getting all the way forward into the attack. The CMF also does double duty, playing as both a Holding Mid and Attacking Mid.
As we have improved our ability to hold possession, I have gradually encouraged the CBs to get forward more in support of the attack by having one at a time step up to act as an extra MF. For example when the ball is on the right wing, the RCB comes forward to offer support and help us circulate the ball if needed, while the LCB shifts centrally and stays around midfield. When the ball shifts left, the 2 CBs shift as well, with the RCB dropping centrally and the LCB moving forward in support.
In general this has worked well for us. As some have pointed out it does require a very high work-rate from the lone CMF at 7v7. He not only has to cover the whole field laterally but also (in 7v7) plays as both a “6″, “8″ and “10″ (I encourage mine to interchange with the striker). Defensively he has to press high and also drop deep and help cover the space in front of the CBs. At 8v8 this isn’t as much of concern because the holding mid and attacking mid roles can be split b/n 2 players.
As far as how this transitions to the future, 0ne of the reasons I like playing with a 2 CB system is it allows us to practice playing out of the back exactly as shown in STT activities in this course. Even at 7v7, we play out with a back 4 + D-Mid, and this will stay the same as we progress to 8v8, 9v9 and 11v11.
There are obviously a lot of different ways to do it, and as many have suggested you can play the same way with 1 CB (back 3) instead of 2 (back 4). A lot depends on the passing range of the players as well, so what works at U11 may not work as well at U9.
Nice post! Notice to the time that the Barca players have to make decisions vs the opponent. Very telling!
Good post Michael thanks. I’m definitely going to use some of your positional instructions. My team plays 8 v 8 and we have transitioned from a 3-3-1 to a 4-3 to get ready for the transition next year to the 4-3-3.
Really the shape is a 2-3-2 but calling it a 4-3 has helped the right and left full backs commit to their roll on defense. On top of that the team can easily see the progression from 4-3 to 4-3-3. The three up top are a center mid/holding mid and 2 attacking mids. Not having a center forward has been a challenge but it has forced us to train the triangle midfield to work together. You’re right that the CM has to work ALOT. We have just started shifting a Center D up to Holding Mid and the other CD back when we are out of possession. This hopefully will help the CM not have to drop so deep to defend. Anyway just thoughts on how your formation might play out at 8v8.
Hi Ryan,
I would be interested in getting your thoughts once you’re further along. I too have similar questions.My u11 team plays a 3-3-1 and my CM has the most stamina of all our boys. My thoughts are:
– If OBs are attacking down the flanks using the #7/#11 on the 1-2, then i think your DCM transitions to CM with less effort. A balanced attack with more flank play allows CM to make lighter runs forward.
– If DCM receives from back 3 and transitions forward he is putting forth more energy by making a pass and pushing forward, perhaps on a counter, but i think the intent is to keep possession by getting out wide to #7/#11 in transition in team’s own half, even when play goes through DCM.
– Our current play in a 3-3-1 is such that the striker inevitably drops back to get service. So it may help with the CM with respect to the amount of field covered, but we do not create nearly enough scoring opportunities (part of that is our quality too).So I am looking forward to my upcoming sessions with the play out the back instruction and first attacking pattern using the OBs in pattern play. I am hoping that this helps with the efficiency of my CM. We would attempt to push OBs forward but failed, mostly due to lack of timing with #7/#11 and knowing when to make that run. As such play would go through the middle more frequently and tiring CM more quickly.
Please note when I coached the U9/10 group, my emphasis was on individual development (Coerver, Soccer U, etc) and I didn’t allow my teams to pass in games. The intent was to establish strong abilities with the ball to beat defenders and comfort with the ball at their feet. That “experiment” resulted in my teams winning their games by significant margins even though I encouraged my teams to start shooting wide of goal and intentionally missing after they scored a hat trick. Today, if I were coaching this age group, I would still impliment the no pass rule in games for up to one full season. However, I would train in practice the STT so that is imprinted on them early and when that transition to possession soccer is made..
Paul,
Just curious on this. For u9, you mentioned no passing in the first season. I understand the need to develop players who can win 1v1 battles, but how does this mesh with the 3v3 philosophy which stresses so much possession? And how do you work that into 3v3 training sessions? ..and sorry if I missed.what is STT?
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